Els,
I think you should give more evidence, for example with a link from the home page, to the fact that reviews can be posted of the sites nominated in the past. Actually this section of the website is really hard to find out.
I also found some mistakes there:
Spain
- The Dalt Vila (old town) of Ibiza is now part of the WHS of Ibiza.
- The fortifications of Gerona seem to be part of the tentative list site "Bulwarked Frontier Fortifications "
- The monastery of Sant Pere de Rodes is part of the tl site "The Mediterranean Facet of the Pyrenees (France-Spain)"
Italy
- The convent of San Salvatore-Santa Giulia in Brescia is part of the tl site "Cividale and the Early Sites of Lombard power in Italy, which is nominated for 2009

Thanks David, for pointing both out!
As there is a real lack of documentation about the older nominated sites it's quite difficult to guess from their names alone which location is really meant (unless you know the site well).

But these "rejections" were factually correct based on the site definition of the time and shouldn't be lost.
If the change in scope wasn't that great and the site could logically be treated as a continuous single entity then the entire history could be recorded on the same site with the date of its extension/redefinition (if known?). Alternatively could put comments (with hyperlinks to the other site?) on each record eg
a. On the "sites nominated in the past" eg "Subsequently included in Ibiza nomination"
b. On the first entry for the revised site (whether still T List or Inscribed) eg "Includes Dalt Vila rejected in 1987"

Hallo everybody. I saw that since 1978 many nominations were suggested in the commitee meeting and on tentative list, that are not considered on the website, maybe we should all work on getting them together, so thal Els can implement them on the state parties' sites.
These would include e.g. Germany: Walhalla, Norway:Eidsvoll Building (1980), Burgess Shale site (1980)-Canada etc.

it would be good to open a forum with nominations from each each where everybody can add nominations that are found in the documents.
with citation etc.

Hi Jakob.
An attempt has been made to do this but inevitably some will have been left out when we went through all the WHC minutes! We have even tried to identify sites which, although they never actually got formally nominated were, for a period, on a country's T List - even using Wayback machine to try to identify these!

If you go to the Norway page and scroll to the bottom the Eidsvoll building is there -
http://www.worldheritagesite.org/countries/norway.html

Canada's Burgess Shale did in fact get inscribed but was subsumed within the Rocky Mountain inscription and its history is described there. I think it would be incorrect to place it under "Sites which have been nominated in the past but it could be done I suppose making it clear what happened to it. It hasn't happened very often - I can only think of New Zealand's Te Wahipounamu which includes 2 previously separate NZ inscriptions of Fjordland and Mt Cook

Walhalla - we don't have it on the Germany page. Do you know the year/history to tell Els on this page? http://www.worldheritagesite.org/countries/germany.html

PS ELS - I note that, although these "previously nominated sites" utilise the "standard" Web page design for sites - ie with room for a "review", it doesn't actually seem possible to review any of them as the review logic only allows reviews for Inscribed or current T List sites. It wouldn't seem unreasonalbe to allow reviews for these sites in which people could indicate their own experience of the site and their view of whether it justified nomination or, if not, then why not? Presumably the "logic" to enable this is already in place and just needs to be opened up for these sites too?

Nomination from SC-85/CONF.008/2
Paris, 21 October 1985
includes Spain, Porugal Peru etc.

German Tentative sites:
D. Romanesque Architecture and Monumental Sculpture
1. Worms, Imperial Cathedral
2 Maria Laach, Abbey Church and Lake
3 Standing Stones (Externsteine) near Paderborn; also an
outstanding natural feature
4 Brunswick, Lion Monument
E.Gothic Churches
5. Marburg, St Elizabeth's
6. Freiburg, Minster
7 Landshut, St Martin's: see "Historical Towns and Cities"
below
F. Cistercian Monasteries
8 Eberbach
G.Castles and Imperial Palaces
9 Gelnhausen, Imperial Palace
10 Eltz, Castle
H. Renaissance Buildings
11 LUneburg, Town Hall
12. Berlin (Spandau), Citadel

I. Baroque Churches and Monasteries
13. Weingarten, Benedictine Monastery
14. Ottobeuren, Benedictine Monastery
Weltenburg, Monastery and Danube Valley
Vierzehnheiligen, Pilgrimage Church and River Main
Valley
Banz, Benedictine Monastery and River Main Valley: see
Cultural Landscapes" below
K. Baroque Palaces, Gardens and Theatres
15. Pommersfelden, Palace
16. Nymphenburg, Palace with Gardens
L. 19th and 20th-Century Architecture
17. Koblenz, Ehrenbreitstein Fortress
18. Ulm, Confederative Fortress (Bundesfestung)
Walhalla, National Monument and Danube Valley
URBAN ARCHITECTURE
M. Streets and Squares
19. Augsburg, Maximilianstrasse with the Cathedral, City Hall
and Church of SS. Ulrich and Afra Augsburg, City Hall:
20 Munich, Ludwigstrasse and Odeonsplatz with the Residence,
Hall of Generals (Feldherrenhalle) and Theatine Church
21 Hamburg, Business District with Chile House
22 Saarbrucken, Ludwigsplatz
23. Berlin, "Horseshoe" Housing Estate (Hufeisensiedlung)
N. Historical Towns and Cities
24. Rothenburg, Nordlingen, DinkelsbUhl
25. Landshut, Old Town with Trausnitz Castle
26 Heidelberg, Old Town and Castle
27 Passau, Old Town
28 WolfenbUttel, Old Town
CULTURAL LANDSCAPES
Landscapes combining outstanding cultural and natural features
29. Rhine Valley between Bingen and Koblenz
30 River Main Valley between Banz and Vierzehnheiligen
31. Danube Valley around Weltenburg
32. Danube Valley around Regensburg, including the Walhalla
and Donaustauf
33. Artland, landscape with farmhouses
2. Laach Lake: see "Romanesque Architecture and Monumental
Sculpture"


Many more from countries all over the world:

http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1995/whc-95-conf203-inf7e.pdf

This is a treasure trove! Thanks.

Will second that, a great find!

There is no doubt that there have been more sites on past T Lists than we have so far recorded – It seems clear that these relate (almost??) entirely to the very earliest T Lists submitted between 1980 and c1990. When we did the trawl through early WHC documents around 8 years ago (??) to identify these sites which we categorised as "Sites that have been nominated in the Past" (not the best of titles as it includes sites which were never actually "nominated" but just appeared for a few years on a T List) I don't remember that the full set of papers for each WHC was available under the "Documents tab" on the UNESCO Web site as is the case now - so that may explain how some sites got missed.

I have just been through all the papers for all WHCs between 1979 and 2005 - around which time UNESCO set up the currently available on line data base of T List sites. I list later the link for each of the documents which describe the T List as at each of the WHCs (easier to access from there than by going to each set of WHC papers!). For the earliest ones I also list the countries which were described as having submitted their T Lists in the previous year. This early documentation is NOT in a standard format but does include, in some cases, quite good descriptions of the sites – even with maps!!

The "crunch" year is 1995, whose document is linked to by Jakob above. This is because it purports to list ALL the T List sites proposed to that time and thus, leaving aside the issue of additional descriptions etc available in some individual years, provides a "complete" starting point for assessing which T List sites were proposed up to 1995. It seems that this was done in 1995 because the WHC had embarked on a push to increase the number of countries submitting a properly formatted T List

I have made a start at looking through this document to record which sites were on that T List but are not recorded on this Web site as
a. Having been Inscribed
b. Still being on a T List
c. Having been removed from the T List without having gained inscription

I think we can assume that no T List sites proposed before 1995 got removed before the creation of the 1995 list without previously gaining inscription – such removals are most likely to have occurred on the occasion of subsequent T List updates.

Unfortunately getting to a full understanding of this aspect of T Lists isn't easy
a. Some Site Titles used in the "original" T Lists have been changed between then and now making it difficult to track them.
b. Some early T List sites can get subsumed within other sites – either still on a T List or, even, inscribed.
a. If a site is on a pre-1975 T List but isn't on a current T List, but hasn't been inscribed, the question arises as to WHEN it got removed since we need to record this to understand the "history" of each site and update this Web site's dB. The only way I can think of to identify this is to look through the later T Lists for each year to discover when such a site actually "disappeared"!( Almost certainly it will coincide with a "major" update of that country's T List for other reasons also) A slight problem is that, whilst the early WHC papers listed the additions each year, the later ones simply list ALL current T List sites – thus making it harder to identify changes from the previous year

I have made a start on trawling through the 1975 list though could do with some "Help" if anyone else is interested in taking a few countries! I will post the countries I have done so far in a later post. My initial impression is that we have not missed that many sites but that certain countries seem to have been particularly active and enthusiastic early on in identifying T List sites but later, presumably in the light of experience as to what sort of sites were gaining inscription and which ones were not, made significant reductions e.g Germany. I have not so far tried to identify when the removed T List sites actually got removed. And in some cases the description of such sites is so inadequate that some additional investigation will be required to identify exactly what was being referred to!

I will also post the full list of links to WHC papers by year on T Lists in the next post

Herewith the list of links to the "T List" agenda paper for each WHC between 1979 and 2005

WHC 3 1979 Paris The WHC which decided that there should be T List - so no actual sites!
WHC 4 1980 Paris http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1980/cc-80-conf016-9e.pdf Lists from Can, W Ger
WHC 5 1981 Sydney http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1981/cc-81-conf003-inf3e.pdf Lists from W Ger, Fr, Can, Pak
WHC 6 1982 Paris http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1982/clt-82-conf015-2e.pdf Lists from India, Portugal, USA
WHC 7 1983 Florence http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1983/sc-83-conf009-inf3e.pdf Lists from Braz, Port. Addits from US
WHC 8 1984 Buenos Aires http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1984/sc-84-conf004-2e.pdf Lists from from Libya, Jordan and Turkey. T Lists now said to have been received from Braz, Can, Fr, W Ger, India, Jor, Pak, Port, Liby, Sp, Turk, USA
WHC 9 1985 Paris http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1985/sc-85-conf008-2e.pdf Lists from Cyp, W Ger, Peru, Port and Ben. Alg, Guy, Mor, Nor and Tun are also said to have sunbmitted – but no documents provided. Can adds 1 site
WHC 10 1986 Paris http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1986/cc-86-conf003-2e.pdf - Lists from Gr, Hun (Cult), India (Natural), Mex, UK, Yugo, and extras from Spin. Total number of vountries having submitted at least a paert T List = 24
WHC 11 1987 Paris http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1987/sc-87-conf005-2e.pdf - Lists from Sri L, Bol, Chin, Jam, Phil, Mor, Alg, Tun, Libya
WHC 12 1988 Brasilia http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1988/sc-88-conf001-inf2e.pdf - Lists from Egy, Iraq, Mali, Oman, Saudi, Syr, Tun, Cub and Nigeria. But Annex 1 with these is not available! Total countries to have submitted at least a part T List = 38
WHC 13 1989 Paris - T List not on Agenda and no updates
WHC 14 1990 Banff - T List not on Agenda and no updates
WHC 15 1991 Carthage - T List not on Agenda and no updates
WHC 16 1992 Santa Fe - T List not on Agenda and no updates
WHC 17 1993 Cartagena – T List not on the Agenda and no updates
WHC 18 1994 Phuket http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1994/whc-94-conf003-inf7e.pdf
On the Agenda but Annex I with the actual "List" as of 1994 is missing!
Situation on T Lists said to be as follows
"In November 1994, out of 139 countries which had ratified the Convention, only
33 States Parties had submitted Tentative Lists which abided with the criteria of presentation specified in the Operational Guidelines;
49 countries had submitted Tentative Lists which did not meet the requirements; and
57 countries had not submitted any Tentative Lists"
The List of countries in the "Satisfactory" and "Unsatisfactory" categories is provided in the Paper and includes some not listed in earlier years above
WHC 19 1995 Berlin http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1995/whc-95-conf203-inf7e.pdf
Contains a FULL LIST of all T Lists submitted up to late 1995.

WHC 20 1996 Merida http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1996/whc-96-conf201-8e.pdf
WHC 21 1997 Naples http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1997/whc-97-conf208-9reve.pdf
WHC 221998 Kyoto http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1998/whc-98-conf203-9e.pdf
The first properly "typed up" T List in a standard format
WHC 23 1999 Marrakesh http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1999/whc-99-conf209-10e.pdf
WHC 24 2000 Cairns http://whc.unesco.org/archive/2000/whc-00-conf204-12e.pdf
WHC 25 2001 Helsinki http://whc.unesco.org/archive/2001/whc-01-conf208-12reve.pdf
WHC 26 2002 Budapest http://whc.unesco.org/archive/2002/whc-02-conf202-20reve.pdf
WHC 27 2003 Paris http://whc.unesco.org/archive/2003/whc03-27com-08acorre.pdf Unfortunately this document only includes Israel's T List!
WHC 28 2004 Suzhou http://whc.unesco.org/archive/2004/whc04-28com-14Ae.pdf
WHC 29 2005 Durban http://whc.unesco.org/archive/2005/whc05-29com-08Ae.pdf

I have been going through http://whc.unesco.org/archive/1995/whc-95-conf203-inf7e.pdf in sequence and have currently reached "G" for Georgia!
Herewith, by country is the List of sites on that T List which, as far as I can see, we have not previously identified as having ever been on a T List or as having gained inscription. I have included countries where we seem to have identified ALL there sites somewhere on this site.
What is exactly meant by some of the Titles needs further investigation!

Argentina All Identified
Algeria Mosques de Tlemcen,
Australia All Identified
Armenia All Identified
Bangla Desh Diangar Pahar Chtittagong
Bangla Desh Siattakot Vihara Dinajpur
Bolivia Village of Copacabana
Bolivia Salines et Villages of the Chapayas
Benin Habitats Foritfies Tata Somba
Benin Façade de la Mosque de Sakete
Bulgaria All identified
Brazil All Identified
Cambodia All Identified
Burkina Grottes de Borogdougou
Burkina Falaises de Banfora Pic de Sindou
Burkina Villages de Koro
Chile All Identified
Canada Detroit de Lancaster
Canada Ile Prince Leopold
Canada Pingos/ McKenzie delta
Canada Fleuve Tomsen
Canada Lac La ronge/Parcs de Quetico
Canada Les Grandes Lacs (Bai de Geroge/Fathom Five)
Canada Ile Funk
China All Identified
Colombia Parque Nacional Natural Ensenada de Utria
Colombia Parque Nacional Natural El Tuparro
Costa Rica Region Ferroviaria San Jose - Limon
Croatia Iles de Kornati
Cuba Gran Parque Nacional de la Sierra Maestra
Cyprus Pre Hist sites of Tenta and Ayia Dhimitrios (with Khiroketia)
Cyprus 5 domed churches od Ss Barnabus and Hilarion (with Ayia Paraskevi)
Czech R Monastery Church of Our Lady Kladroby
Denmark Ribe town
Denmark Liselund Country house, Park and Pavilions
Denmark Mogeltonder Village St
Denmark Vor Frelsers Church Copenhagen
Denmark Rosenborg Castle
Egypt All Identified
El Salv All Identified
Finland Bronze Age Burial site of Huiluvuori
Finland Iron Age Prehistoric Remains of Rapola at Valkeakoski
France All Identified
Gambia All Identified
Geogia All Identified

Innsbruck is still on the Austrian T-list under "Cultural Landscape of Innsbruck-Nordkette/Karwendel".



Hippone, Tabessa, Khamissa and Tibilis are all part of the serial nomination "Sites, lieux et itineraires augustiniens du Maghreb central". Les Djeddars are part of the serial nomination "Les Mausolées Royaux de Numidie, de la Maurétanie et les monuments funéraires pré-islamiques".


What are we going to do with the previous US list which included a great number of national parks? At the moment only three of these sites are mentioned on the history page.


It is in fact possible through the history page (although not through your personal profile). I gave a review of Freiburg for example.

Thanks - I have removed the corrections post hoc from the list above - As I said the name chenges and subsuming of sites into other groupings makes it a bit more difficult to track the early T List entries. There may be some others on my list!


I would presume that they should be added to the history?

Hi Assif -it has occurred to me that I was being a bit "slow" when I responded as above last night to your question!! If you have done USA then list the missing ones here - I will be continuing through the countries in alpha sequence missing out any which have been done by someone else.

Els can later decide if or when she will add the missing sites to the dB using the info from this topic.
I have decided to go back and add the date of the T List from which the missing sites came since this really needs to be put on the dB as well - which still leaves the problem of how to discover when the sites were removed