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Author Assif
Partaker
#1 | Posted: 4 Jun 2011 16:25 | Edited by: Assif 
I was tempted by winterkjm's recent review of South Korean tentative sites to survey current Israeli tentative sites and assess their chance of gaining an inscription. I've actually already reviewed most of them.

Triple Arch of Dan - hotly debated in this forum. Obviously there is some unknown problem blocking the otherwise quite reasonable inscription. (Yes)

Hula Valley - This was Israel's first nature reserve. A small pond was all that was left of a much larger lake that was dried for agricultural purposes. At least two endemics got extinct. I truly don't know whether Unesco would like to support this sort of policy even if it is now recognized as a historical mistake. The site is of large significance for many migratory birds moving from Europe to Africa and back. It was already proposed to Unesco and was referred with the suggestion to combine it with other sites along the migratory route in other countries such as Kenya. Interestingly, Kenya is now proposing its own Rift Valley. (No)

Jerusalem ext. - Mount Zion is not that special I think, but it is certainly an extention to the already inscribed old town. It does make sense to add it but only once political sensitivities in the area will be resolved. Until then it has no chance at all. (No)

Lake of Galilee and its old sites - This nomination was suggested as a mixed property. I can't see what's so special about the natural setting. Additionally, a large portion of the lake is in the Golan Heights which are internationally recognized as Syrian lands. Therefore, this nomination too has poor chances in the current political state. (No)

Routes of Jesus in the Galilee - Apart from being important to Christians religiously there is very little to offer along the suggested route. The only site I consider at least partially worthy is Seppheris but it seems it is not included. (No)

Hurvat Minnim - An Umayyad mansion that was ruined in an earth quake. It is now in ruins and doesn't seem to be well taken care of. I don't see any reason for insciption. (No)

Degania and Nahalal - These are examples of Wall and Tower settlements from the early 20th Century. They are special and modern so I guess that they stand a chance. (Yes)

Early synagogues of the Galilee - Synagogues are underrepresented and some of the sites are special (Tiberias, Capernaum, Seppheris, Baram) so I think this is a good one. (Yes)

Crusaders Castles - Most of these castles are in a very bad shape. Only one, Belvoir, still shows its fortification and inner structure clearly. On the other hand, there are very few sites which represent this important historic movement (Acre, Crac de Chevaliers) so perhaps due to historical reasons more than archaeological ones this nomination could succeed. This said, Jordan has much better crusader castles to offer (Montreal, Kerak). (No)

The White Mosque - Not much is left of this once magnificent mosque in Ramle. Now only its tower stands out with a few excavations around it. As there are quite a few mosques and muslim sites from this era (Umayyad) I don't think it stands a chance. (No)

Besan - This is a magnificent Roman city of an international level. It was the capital of the Decapolis union which made Unesco suggest a serial nomination with some other sites, all of which are in Jordan. (Yes)

Caesarea Maritima - An important Roman city and later a crusader city. It is very nice to visit but I don't think it would add anything exceptional to the already large presence of Roman sites on the list. If I had to chose I would certainly prefer Besan to Caesarea Maritima. (No)

Beth Govrin - Maresha - This year's candidate. It represents an extensive historical use of underground caves spanning from the Greek to the Byzantine periods. Nothing like Cappadocia but still interesting. (Yes)

Prehistorical sites of the Galilee - This is a serial nomination of three sites. They are aparently of high (pre)historical significance but it is very difficult for me to assess them by visiting them. According to what I read they hold several world records:
Shaar HaGolan was the central village of the Yarmukan culture, one of the most properous Neolithic cultures worldwide.
Ubadiyya held the earliest human remains outside Africa until a recent descovery in Georgia.
The Carmel Caves hold the most extensive Neanderthal skeleton in the world. One of the caves also features a burial site shared by Homo Sapiens and Neanderthal, the only one worldwide.
These sites don't have much in common so I doubt it if they could stand out as a single nomination. Nonetheless - (Yes)

Arbel Cliff - This site is proposed as a historical landscape with natural attributes. I don't know what's so special about the nature of this particular area. Historically this area knew a lot of changes - it had a medievil Jewish settlement, then there was the final battle between the Mameluk and the Crusaders and later th Druze settled there - but all these haven't truly left any remarkable imprints at least to my sight. (No)

Timna - Claimed to be the oldest mines in the world. I am not sure how scientific this statement really is. The natural landscape is beautiful, very similar to Wadi Rum in Jordan, which is candidating this year. If Wadi Rum succeeds I doubt if there should also be room for this one. I think Israel will have to put more emphasis on the mining landscape aspect for this nomination to stand a chance. (No)

Mount Karkom - The only T-site I don't know. Very isolated.

Makhteshim Country - The largest erosion cirques in the world. This phenomenon only appears in Sanai (Egypt) and Turkmenistan and it is not yet represented on the list so I think it should get inscribed. The problem with this nomination is that Israeli military uses most of this extensive area to practise... (Yes)

Beth Shearim - The only Jewish necropolis I know. Very impressive. (Yes)

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#2 | Posted: 4 Jun 2011 20:45 
Interesting summary. I am suprised there might be another 7-8 potential WHS in Israel!

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#3 | Posted: 12 Aug 2015 22:20 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Ein Karem, a village and its cultural landscape is perhaps the next Israel nomination according to this article. Seems to carry quote a bit of contested heritage, as Palestine disproves.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/07/jerusalem-ein-karem-traditional-bat h-judaism-christianity.html

Author Assif
Partaker
#4 | Posted: 17 Jun 2016 11:08 
According to the following article an extension of Nahalal is underway which could obstruct its chances for inscription.

http://xnet.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4725703,00.html

Degania, on the other hand, seems to proceed towards nomination.

http://www.mynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4668374,00.html

Author Messy
Partaker
#5 | Posted: 21 Jun 2016 08:59 
Additionally, a large portion of the lake is in the Golan Heights which are internationally recognized as Syrian lands.

None of the lake is in the Golan Heights, Knerret was always part of 1948 Israel. Syria demanded it when they had negotiations to return the Golan, and while they conceded on Haifa (the original demand in the negotiations was ALL of northern Israel), they decided to walk out when the Jewish state demmured on them giving the "Sea of Galillee" in return for a "cold peace" (no recognition).

Author Assif
Partaker
#6 | Posted: 21 Jun 2016 13:33 | Edited by: Assif 
Messy:
Additionally, a large portion of the lake is in the Golan Heights which are internationally recognized as Syrian lands.

You are right. I was imprecise. What I meant was the shore, part of which belongs to the Golan Heights. It would be difficult to argue for integrity leaving out portions of the beach and some archaeological sites.

Author Jurre
Partaker
#7 | Posted: 17 May 2022 12:40 
Wander among the ancients at an Israeli world heritage site

An article about the Necropolis of Bet She'arim

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#8 | Posted: 5 Dec 2022 05:02 
Feedback from my recent trip to Israel. Map is here.

Itinerary
Day 0 (Wednesday) - Arrival Tel Aviv.

Day 1 (Thursday) - Tel Aviv / White City

Day 2 (Friday/Sabbath) - Tel Aviv to Akko
* Caesarea Aqueduct (T)
* Nahal Mearot Nature Preserve
* Bet Sche'arim
* Bahá'í Garden Haifa
* Akko

Day 3 (Saturday/Sabbath) - Akko to Lake Galilee
* Akko: Knights Templar Castle
* Akko: Bahá'í Garden
* Tel Hazor
* Korazim National Park (T): Sea of Galilee, Ancient Synagogues
* Mt. of Beatitudes (T): Journeys of Jesus & the Apostles
* Capernaum (T): Sea of Galilee, Ancient Synagogues

Day 4 (Sunday): Lake Galilee to Ein Gedin
* Degania (T)
* Bet She'an (T)
* Qumran (T): Would have needed more time for the full hike.
* Ein Gedin Nature Reserver (N/A)
* Ein Gedein Synagoge (N/A)

Day 5 (Monday) Ein Gedin to Beer Scheva
* Masada
* Ein Barak Beach (N/A): Dead sea swimming.
* Lots Wife (N/A): Not well marked, but nice being near Sodom.
* Traffic Control: Going up from the red sea, you are stuck on a one lane road. They give out tickets for overtaking.
* Mumshit

Day 6 (Tuesday): Ber Schiva to Jerusalem
* Tel Berschiva
* Caves of Maresha and Bet Guvrin
* Ein Karem (T): Passed through it. Didn't impress us enough to warrant a stop.
* Yad Vashem (N/A)
* Jerusalem: Entered Jesus grave at Holy Sepulchre.

Day 7 (Wednesday): Jerusalem
* Walking around town. Dome of the Rocks is the prettiest mosque I have ever seen.
* David archeological park was a joke. Skip.
* Israel Musem is very nice, but a bit chaotic.
* Tip: Check opening hours in advance. Come early before the tour groups.

Day 8 (Thursday): Bethlehem, Hebron, Battir.
* Bus from HaNevi'im Terminal (Damaskus Gate) to Checkpoint 300.
* Behind the border way too many taxi drivers being annoying.
* Walk along wall to Bethlehem. Depressing site. Murals are a site (Banksy).
* Bethlehem old town is very nice.
* Cab to Hebron and Battir and to the Checkpoint 300. 270 NIS.

Day 9 (Friday/Sabbath) - Jericho, Tel Aviv.
* Bus from Sultan Suleiman Station (Damaskus Gate) to al-Eizariya (suburb of Jerusalem).
* From al-Eizariya I wanted to take a shared cab, but simply got a cab for myself. Reason: I needed to be in Tel Aviv before Sabbath kicks in. I paid 200 NIS.
* Mosaics at Hischam Palace stunning.
* Jericho in poor state, but will make it.#

Day 9 (Saturday/Sabbath): Tel Aviv
* Liebling House was a a pleasant surprise.
* Beer on the beach. Felt like we needed a day off.
* Neve Tzedek and Florentin are nicest neighborhoods.
* Tel Aviv Museum of Art is nice.

Day 10: Tel Aviv - Home.
* Get early to the airport. Takes longer than other airports (3h recommended).

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#9 | Posted: 5 Dec 2022 05:21 
Ranking of WHS (including Palestine)
World Class: Jerusalem
Great: Akkon (crusaders!), Masada (views and ruins combined)
Good: Necropolis of Bet She'arim, Caves of Maresha and Bet Guvrin, Biblical Tells (should have included Jericho), Bethlehem, Hebron
Average: White City of Tel-Aviv, Mount Carmel Caves, Incense Route of the Negev
Below Average: Bahá'i Holy Places (Copycat gardens. Not original. Mar el Lago feeling).
Undeserving: Battir.

Note:
* Battir and Ein Karem (T) are on opposite sites of the border. This would have been one inscription in most places.
* Bethlehem and Holy Sepulchre should have been one WHS, too.
* Bethlehem has a very pretty old town that should be included in the WHS if it isnt already.

With Israel out of the Unesco, visiting tentatives is pointless, but...

Deservers inscription:
* Kibbutz at Delgania seem like a good addition.
* Early Synagogues in the Galilee were fun.
* Capharnaum should be added for its Synagoge and church (either sea of galilee, synagogue).
* Qumram looks fine too, as an example of a Jewish splitter group.

Potentials:
* Early mosques would be nice. There are some in Israel.
* Dont see much else. Israel is a tiny place.

General:
* State of preservation for most sites is surprisingly poor for a rich country such as Israel. Worst offender is the White City where loads of houses aren't white.
* State of presentation leaves much to be desired. There are few trails and signs go AWOL. We got lost repeatedly.
* There is very little Jewish heritage. Intuitively, we would have guessed there to be more, but realistically there really wasn't much Jewish history since the Romans.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#10 | Posted: 5 Dec 2022 16:18 
Sounds like quite an eventful trip! I just traveled to Israel in early November to finish the last sites I hadn't seen, and took in two World Heritage Sites a day over the course of a long weekend; it looks like you were able to fit a lot more into your schedule. I think the biggest challenge I found when traveling through the country was refilling gas for my rental, since none of the gas stations I went to had gas pumps which displayed any language other than Hebrew.

nfmungard:
Ranking of WHS (including Palestine)

I think my ranking would be very similar to yours for the Israeli sites; Jerusalem, Akko, and Masada were most certainly my favorite sites. I might drop the Necropolis of Bet She'arim down to average (after visiting Egypt ten years ago, necropolises have had diminishing returns for me), but I'd also probably raise the Bahá'i Holy Places up to average (the latter is because I spent a good three hours visiting and taking a tour of the gardens at Akko, which gave me an appreciation as to the importance of the site to the Bahá'i faith).

I agree with your comments on the early synagogues in the Galilee as being a good potential future inscription (were Israel to submit sites again in the future). I also quite liked the Triple-arch Gate at Dan (which it looks like you weren't able to visit) and Bet She'an. I don't know that it would ever happen, but I'd be in favor of Bet She'an and Jerash in Jordan being put forward as a transnational Decapolis Sites nomination.

As for natural sites that aren't on the list, but were nice to visit, I enjoyed both Ein Gedi (which it looks like you visited), and Ein Avdat (which is a canyon near the Avdat component of the Incense Routes of the Negev).

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#11 | Posted: 6 Dec 2022 01:35 
Colvin:
I found when traveling through the country was refilling gas for my rental, since none of the gas stations I went to had gas pumps which displayed any language other than Hebrew.

Same here. We used gas stations where there was personnel filling up our tank. And in the end we only went twice.

Our main issue was the insane price level. I had not anticipated Israel on par with Norway/close to Iceland.

Colvin:
after visiting Egypt ten years ago, necropolises have had diminishing returns for me

Get your point. Next door Egypt has way better necropolises over a longer timespan.

Colvin:
I'd also probably raise the Bahá'i Holy Places up to average (the latter is because I spent a good three hours visiting and taking a tour of the gardens at Akko, which gave me an appreciation as to the importance of the site to the Bahá'i faith).

Holiness to me is not a factor in determining OUV. ;) OUV should be based on cultural or historical considerations. As landscaping goes, the gardens are copycats. These are not innovations, but copy heavily from previous gardens / periods including the obvious roman columns. For a 20th century garden this is too little. Also: The site encompasses more than the gardens. The two locations in Akko are not accessible.

Colvin:
Bet She'an and Jerash in Jordan being put forward as a transnational Decapolis Sites nomination.

Akin to your Egypt experience, Grecoroman ruins don't flash me after Turkey. ;) Bet She'an felt less than e.g. Laodikeia.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#12 | Posted: 6 Dec 2022 05:48 | Edited by: Solivagant 
nfmungard:
Colvin:
I'd also probably raise the Bahá'i Holy Places up to average (the latter is because I spent a good three hours visiting and taking a tour of the gardens at Akko, which gave me an appreciation as to the importance of the site to the Bahá'i faith).

Holiness to me is not a factor in determining OUV. ;) OUV should be based on cultural or historical considerations. As landscaping goes, the gardens are copycats. These are not innovations, but copy heavily from previous gardens / periods including the obvious roman columns. For a 20th century garden this is too little. Also: The site encompasses more than the gardens. The two locations in Akko are not accessible.

This site certainly divides opinion!! Ratings are of course very "personal" and often incomprehensible to others. But (@Els)
a. is there any other WHS which has received BOTH 5 star and half star ratings??
b. On "incomprehensibility" I certainly can't understand the SEVEN 5 star ratings - but everyone has a right to their say of course. Perhaps it is a "spiritual vote"? It doesn't seem to be a "nationalistic vote" which often "explains" such enthusiasm for a site. Could you (some time!) produce a list of ALL the WHS which have received at least ONE 5 star rating showing the number received? It will be interesting to know which sites at least someone considers to be the "best of the best"....

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#13 | Posted: 6 Dec 2022 06:41 
We have it per visitor. It wouldnt be an issue to calculate per site.

I am hard pressed how this is a 5* site. Then the Medici Villas (which they heavily copy) would have to be 10*.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#14 | Posted: 6 Dec 2022 07:03 | Edited by: Solivagant 
nfmungard:
Then the Medici Villas (which they heavily copy) would have to be 10*.

I am not sure I would have cited the Medici Gardens... I would have turned first to the Persian Gardens.
Have found these articles analysing the gardens, their influences and intended "purposes"
a. From the Bahai Web site quoting from an Israeli Architect - https://ganbahai.org.il/distinctive-design-of-the-bahai-gardens/
b. From the Garden Architect himself - Iranian/Canadian Fariborz Sahba - who seems to have been a "favourite" of the Bahai (He is "Bahai" in faith) and also "did" the New Delhi temple. https://sahbaarchitect.com/the-terraces-of-the-shrine-of-the-bab/
c. Another Bahai article which explains the references within the design - https://bahaiworld.bahai.org/library/symbols-of-transformation/

They provide interesting background but I don't think they make me change my mind about the site's lack of "tangible" value.......But I am perhaps left pondering even more about what gives a "site of faith" OUV? Should all religions and sects etc etc be given the same "respect" and acclamation. As I stated in my review of the site - what about e.g - "The Cao Dai temple in Tay Nihn? The Mormon Tabernacle (there are 3 times as many Mormons in the world as Bahais)? Gapyeong Unification Church? The major centres of Scientology in US/UK?" Where does one stop? Does "number of adherents" provide extra validity and thus give Christian, Islamic, Buddhist and Hindu sites extra consideration? Recently, spiritual sites belonging to "small" indigenous groups have been inscribed - if they have OUV for (and I am being deliberately "provocative" rather than "dismissive" of their beliefs!!) a "few bits" of carved wood and stone or a few trees in a sacred grove- why shouldn't the spiritual sites of "medium sized" religious groups with much larger numbers also be recognised as "World Heritage"? Does every religion and sect get one "free pass" - rather like Countries do to make sure that everyone is invited to the World Heritage Party!!

Author Colvin
Partaker
#15 | Posted: 6 Dec 2022 23:22 | Edited by: Colvin 
I haven't rated the Baha'i Holy Places yet, but when I do, it will likely be squarely in the middle at 2.5 stars, based on the importance of the Shrine of Baháʼu'lláh in the garden at Akko as a pilgrimage site for the Baha'i. As Nan has mentioned, the gardens are not anything special, and they did not factor into my rating.

In regard to the slippery slope that Solivagant cautions about, the point is well taken about where one stops in recognizing religious sites as having OUV. I would say number of adherents for a faith should be a factor in recognizing sites, so I could certainly see a case for a nomination for Temple Square in Salt Lake City, as Solivagant has posited. I personally would be very in favor of India moving forward with Sri Harimandir Sahib in Amritsar (the most holy site in Sikhism), a site remarkably missing from the WHS list despite the fame of its Golden Temple and the fact that Sikhism is one of the largest faiths worldwide.

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